The Duggars are an Extremely Dysfunctional Family
81Anyone Who Has 19 Children Is Severely Mentally Ill
There is a television program on TLC Discovery Channel which centers around an Arkansas couple called the Duggars. They are the parents of an extremely large family. They presently have a total of nineteen children. Yes, nineteen children! You heard me correctly!
The Duggars are an anomaly in this day and age of scrupulous family planning. They are adherents of the fanatical religious sect, the Quiverfull Movement. This movement espouses no form of birth control and to have as many children as " God sends you". However, during her early years of marriage, Michelle Duggar used birth control;and she miscarried.
When the Duggars started to have children, they elected not to use any type of contraception but to let it rip. The philosophy of the Duggars are the children are wealth, a blessing, and the more the merrier. They assert that their large family is indeed a blessing.
Is it really? Let's study the situation. Before their television show and book earned them millions of dollars, the children lived cramped together in a very small house . However, they live in a slightly large house since their television show. Their children's bedroom is a dormitory-like setting with multiple bunk beds. They have no privacy at all. To top all this, they have to schedule time with their parents WEEKS ahead.
Their older children have no childhoods at all. They function as primary caregivers and it is mandatory that they raise their younger siblings. Their parents do not raise the children at all. However, the Duggars INTEND to have more children. This does not make sense to most educated, normal, and intelligent people. ,We have been educated to know that when a person becomes a parent, it is their responsibility to raise their children, not other children. If a parent is affluent enough, he/she usually hires an au pair and/or a nanny to help raise their children.
Although the Duggars have money to hire nannies and au pairs to raise their children, they elect not to do so. Instead they have their oldest children consigned to slave labor status as handmaidens and servants to their younger siblings. Psychologist decry parents who have children raise other children. Psychological studies state the children do not have the maturity and the development to raise other children. The studies assert that the raising of children is an ADULT responsibility, not ANOTHER CHILD'S responsibility. I concur with those studies. An older sibling raise a younger siblings constitutes child abuse.
Furthermore, many women, including Michelle Duggar, have an inordinate amount of children because of "baby hunger". Psychological and sociological studies maintained that there are many women who continuously get pregnant because they crave infants. Once their children leave infancy, they miss this and have another child. This is a form of mental illness. These psychologically challenged women kept on having infants to the neglect of the older children. This is what Michelle Duggar is doing. She is neglecting the older children to continuously have infants to satisfy her "baby hunger".
It is evident that the oldest children in the family are neglected and relegated to the status of servant to the parents and to the younger siblings. Most rationally minded parents stop at one or two children because they believe that it all they can care for emotional and psychologically. Financial affordability is not the only factor in deciding how many children a couple has Emotional availability should be another factor. Even though a couple is highly affluent, does not mean that they should have a large family. Studies show that as a family becomes large, parents are unable to invest much emotional time in the caring of their children.
To state it succinctly, the Duggars are UNABLE to care for their children. Yet, the Duggars indicated that they wanted a twentieth child. This is totally inane. They do not even take care of the other ninteteen they have. They have it very easy as parents. That job is done by their children. There was one segment of the series in which the oldest daughters wanted to travel but the mother forbade it because she wanted them to look after her infant child
The Duggars are a selfish, narcissistic couple in need in of a good psychiatrist. They do not care about their children at all. They just have children because they want to satisfy their "baby hunger" instead of intelligent planning for the amount of children they can PROPERLY care for. The Duggars are not to be praised but to be pitied. They seriously should undergo intense psychiatric treatment as there is definitely something amiss with them.
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What is also troubling about the Duggar family is their strict adherence to stereotypical gender roles when it come to the "jurisdictions" and childcare. The four older daughters have a ridiculous amount of responsibility and seem to be the primary caregivers to the younger children. They also seem to do ALL of the cooking, or rather as is the Duggar style, heating up canned and processed food and also seem to be the ones responsible for all cleaning and laundry. Michelle seems to nothing in that house but care for the youngest child. The parents also claim to live debt free and that they built their new house without incurring any debt but the truth is that TLC paid for the house to be finished, for the furnishings and decorating and for the massive, expensive grand piano. We could all be totally debt free if a tv network was footing the bill for us. When they had to pay for themselves, they lived in extremely cramped quarters. Also, those children do not have the opportunity for any further education at all. The oldest son runs a used car lot, the next son has a towing business. Did neither consider college? The three oldest daughters are long out of high school, why are they still at home every day caring for kids instead of pursuing some sort of education or any kind of life outside of that household. Their volunteering at the fire hall in a pair (heaven forbid they have an interest that would allow them to be alone)is not the same as pursuing solo efforts that interest them. I agree with the "baby craving" observation. Michelle Duggar seems to fit this completely and Jim Bob's quiverfull beliefs perpetuate this. How people do not see how disturbing this is is beyond me.
Dear Marina, I agree wholeheartedly with you. In large families, the parents do not raise the children. It is the older children, who give up their childhoods, to raise the younger children. This is why small families are best for the development of children's needs and potentials and for family life as well. Good point, Marina.
The comment on "infant craving" was interesting, I didn't know about it. Thanks.
They are not from Arizona but Arkansas. Either you made a huge typo, have no geographical sense, or did very little research...
To Melanie: Thank you. Big mistake- I meant Arkansas, not Arizona. I did not know what I was thinking that day! Thank you again.
these people are disgusting
To bill: Thank you for your input. I have news to share: Michelle Duggar is having her TWENTIETH child. When will IT ALL stop! When!
Now tell me, HOW exactly are they hurting anyone? That is one of the happiest families I have seen on this crazy world of reality TV.
Crazy or not, they are supporting their own way, they are not sticking thier hand of for government assistence.
Those kids are NOT deprived or mistreated, just because YOU think they should be able to do things YOU think they should.
It is THIER buisness, in my opinion, and as long as they are not hurting others....more power to them.
What a lovely family. White people used to be one in 3 of the world's population, now were only 1 in 12. Beautiful Duggar family is doing more than their fair share to help our race.
@CMerritt
They are hurting someone they are hurting Michelle's body and the older children I find it astonishing cps has yet to step in and stop this madness.
To Darren: I could not have agreed with you more. Thank you so much for stopping by and submitting your input. I, too, feel that CPS should investigate this! However, this is not within their purview as the children "appear to be well-taken care off".
Surely the older children will finally realise that they are being exploited by their parents and could sue them for this. They've abdicated from the complexity of educating their own children about values to the older ones. Seriously worrying that this is seen as a 'model' family. If they're ever open to it it's going to take years of psychological intervention.
Thank you Joanne for your enlightening statement. Of course, the oldest children are exploited; however, they are so brainwashed into the Duggar groupthink consensus that they believe that this lifestyle is the only valid one. They are so indoctrinated that they will never realize the depth of this abuse until there is psychological intervention. Many people who came from large families are in denial regarding the situation of their families. They voice how "happy" they are even though they grew up in the most hardscrabble psychosocial situation. Again, thank you for stopping by.
Joanne we can only wish that would happen I am astonished that they don't pay taxes get anything large for the house from their sponsors for free get sudsidies(I apologize for the incorrect spelling) from the government for their "church" the Large pay check from TLC and yet they get their clothing from thrift stores. taking up large quantity of those items away from people that actually need to shop in thrift stores. I feel that if their children pull the same crap they have the US government is going to step in and do what the chineese government has done limit families to having 1 child each.
They are endangering the safety of their children by having too many to safely supervise. I watched a few episodes and in a 1/2 hour show, I saw one child about 8 chewing on the end of a crutch. He had the entire rubber end inside his mouth. The germs were one thing but the end could have come off and he could have choked, by the time anyone got to that poor kid he would be dead.
Another child, a small girl of about 4 yrs old was vomiting violently and one of the older girls was trying to help her throw up. The child was crying for "mommy" but mommy was no where in sight. The child finally laid on the couch writhing in pain. No blanket, no pillow, no stuffed cuddly. No adult came to check on the child, no one took her temperature. She was left to fend for herself.
An infant less than a few months old was left in the care of one of the older children who apparently left her face down on the dirty floor when they all went outside to play on their makeshift slip and slide devised by "dad" which consisted of plastic tarp, dish soap and water. No helmets, no safety instructions just "come on down and slide" mass chaos.
I do not see any toys in the house at all. There is no education going on and these kids stick to their own family for socializing or worse yet, only socialize with other misfit families from their messed up "church". As a result, the children are socially retarded and very unaccepting of anyone different from them. Sad. Where is Child Services??
To Askme: This is so true what you have stated. The Duggars are not the only neglectful parents of large families. The average large family is that way. Parents who have so many children that they are not supervised properly- let us say, totally unsupervised.
Many children of large families are subjected to benign neglect to say the least. They are left to raise themselves and suffer the effects of neglect. I have NEVER met any child from a large family who received adequate attention. In fact, it was quite the opposite, children from large families are often neglected by their parents and left to their own devices. The culture of the large family is totally dysfunctional and pathological to say the least. Askme, you are a person after my own heart. I believe that parents should have from 1-3 children to adequately raise them and to provide financially beyond the subsistence level.
come on guys.........they are healthy and happy kids. What makes you think the Gov should be able to step in and tell them how many kids we can or cannot have?.........is this Amerika?
Those children are not healthy. They are neglected as the average child in a large family is. They have no parental supervision and are left to raise themselves. Yes, Child Services should step into the Duggar household- these people are monsters, not parents!
WOW!
that is about all I can say to that.
we gotta agree to disagree....stongly.
CMerritt: Healthy and happy kids? eh...only time will tell. Odds are tho' the Duggar kids will end up much like other children who were on TV at an early age, depressed, substance abusers. Having a camera follow you around recording your every move, is not normal. I've seen the Duggar children, the really young ones, roused from sleeping at 4am so they could make an appearance on the Today show or other promotional spots. To wake a sleeping child and deprive them of much needed sleep is very wrong and unhealthy.
The Duggar kids emotional needs are not being met. The older kids are nothing more than indentured servants and the younger ones are marketing tools for this dysfunctional reality show.
The girl children are being taught they are nothing more than baby making machines and being deprived of an education.
The klan does not associate with anyone of a different race, religion or beliefs making these children unable to appreciate or understand diversity in society.
The Duggar kids are "home schooled" but I see little schooling going on when I watch the show. The children are left to themselves mostly. And, what education does Michelle Duggar have that that makes her a skillful teacher?
These kids are not being raised to be independent, self sufficient adults but more like little clones of their parents.
can you prove ONE thing that you just stated?
I don't think you can. I think you are merely speculating. And sticking your nose into someone elses business.....If there was an ounce of proof of anything wrong........they would have already lost those kids.........they are on National TV for gosh sakes.
"Prove it" what's to prove? Paul Peterson, Patty Duke, Todd Bridges just to name a few of children who grew up before the cameras and grew into adults with emotional issues. We do not yet know the impact of childhood reality stars.
It is a contradiction to forbid your children (as the Duggars do) from watching television to being on television. Can only imagine the conflicting information the children are getting.
"sticking my nose in someone else's business" that is just too funny. I am not the one who opened up my personal business for a national reality show. I am pretty sure the Michelle and Jim Bob are not as naive as they appear. Once you agree to let cameras into your life, you pretty much give up playing the "none of your business" card!
As far as the government and child services, YES this is America. The land that came up with civil rights, work place laws and put an end to child labor. It is our duty as a peaceful kind nation to object mistreatment of the weak. Child who do not have a voice and no say in what their parents subject on to them do need government to protect them~same as animals.
The Duggar parents subscribe to the Michael Pearl method of child rearing which is to spank, beat your children into submission and only allow for a "happy" emotion and NEVER any other emotion like sadness, anger, etc. That is why the Duggar kids never have any expression other than a phony happy look. The same empty fake expressions their hypocrite parent wear.
To Askme: I totally agree with your premise. In all large families, the oldest child ALWAYS raise their younger siblings thus forfeiting their own childhoods and adolescence. The Duggars are typical parents of large families. They are not the only parents of large families who neglect their children- an overwhelming majority of parents who have large families neglect/abuse their children in one way or another! However, if CMerritt chooses to disagree with you, please let him and do not argue. Mr. Merritt has his opinion as you have yours. Please do not argue with him regarding your premise on this hub. I welcome your premise as I welcome his. Thank you kindly!
Will do gm. For the record tho', think it was he who was arguing by asking me to "prove it" or saying I am "speculating" and "sticking my nose into someone else's business". Not arguing, just stating my opinion. Thank you.
I saw another kind of neglect when the Duggars allowed 11 year old Jason to run around like crazy by that 12 foot drop into the orchestra pit. The kid fell into it and because of the lack of a mature grown-up saying to him, "Jason, cool it. Someone's gonna get hurt," he fell into it and banged himself up pretty bad. If fate would have played out differently, this boy could have died and Jim-Bob and Michelle would have been crucified and have their children taken from them. I also agree with the top poster who said that someone should have taken care of the vomiting Johannah and maybe give her tea, butter less toast, and ginger ale.
To Bridget: Parents cannot adequate care for a large family. There are going to be some children who will be neglected, overlooked, and etc. in large to very large families. What happened to the Duggar children is very apropros in large to very large families. Children in large to very large families often fare worse than those in small families who are usually cared for and supervised by both parents. In small families, the children are either equal or outnumbered by the parents; in large to very large families, the children OUTNUMBER the parents. It is just simple mathematics- children in large to very large families are NOT going to get the care, attention, and supervision that children in small families receive!
To Bridget: I totally concur. The Duggars are not the only ones. Children in large to very large families are often not adequately cared for, supervised, and paid attention to by their parents. Parents in large to very large families often express bewilderment and perplexity regarding the ability to care for their children. That is why the OLDEST child or children are compelled to raise and care for their younger siblings thus forfeiting their OWN childhoods and adolescence.
Children in large to very large families tend to be ignored, overlooked, and uncared for. It is a total impossibility for parents to care for a large brood of children. This is why children in large to very large families often fare worse than children in small families. Many children in large to very large families, although they are in DEEP DENIAL ABOUT THIS ISSUE, are often needy as adults and many become quite territorial because they are not brought up with individuation as children.
Children in small families receive MORE care and attention than children from large to very large families. Children in small families are equal in number and/or outnumbered by their parents. In large to very large families, children OUTNUMBER the parents-this is simple mathematical logic. There is no way that parents in large to very large families can adequate care for their children. Any person who states that they can, are totally delusional to say the least.
Although I agree with you that the older Duggar kids shouldn't be raising the younger kids, this is not true of all large families. Yes they may have to pitch in more but most older siblings enjoy helping out (helping not doing it all) look after the younger children. Also families of 5 or 6 often are very loved abd get adequate care even though they out number the parents.
Agree in "some" large families older children enjoy helping out but I think it depends on the age of the older children. Like an 8 year old probably loves carrying around their baby sis or bro but when the older child enters puberty and starts developing into teen years, friends, separating from parents and should be forming their own identity, I think some older children can start resenting caring for siblings.
I also agree 5 ot 6 children can be very loved and get adequate attention. That number of children is not extreme or difficult to give attention to although it is kind of unheard of in this day and age. This 19 children and procreating until you cannot procreate anymore is what I find objectionable. The Duggar parents seem to have no filters, no common sense, no concern. The attitude of "God will provide" is one thing but my thought is God made you with brains, free will and common sense. You should exercise those gifts and not put this on God.
To askme: Thank God for you. I mean this sincerely. Finally, a person after my own heart. I totally concur with you regarding this premise. In my opinion, many oldest children resent looking after their younger siblings. How do I know this? I have encountered many oldest siblings of large families who actually resented their parents for having more children than they can reasonably take care of; furthermore, they resented( I heard this many times) giving up their individual lives to look after younger siblings. That is why many oldest daughters of large families leave home as soon as they can to get away from their chattel, slave like status. This applies to oldest sons but less so! Oldest sons in large to very large families usually have more freedom than oldest daughters in large to very large families. Askme, I always welcome your comments and always feel free to stop by ANYTIME!
Oh thank you so much GM for valuing my opinions! I value yours as well and your intelligent, common sense view of things. Such a rarity to have both!
I completely agree with your assessment of the Duggar family. As a university student studying psychology, I've watched several episodes of their show in horror. I saw one brief scene showing the older girls shopping for clothing. They remarked they shopped around for deals and bought things for the others. However, it almost seemed contrived as though the producers had told them to do this as a compromise. After all, one can't have the family looking too odd, and there needs to be some indication they're not totally out of touch with the real world. Otherwise, people wouldn't watch the show.
I hope to the gods this train wreck will be halted before it even has a chance to start. Many may defend their way of life to the bitter end, but there are some ideologies which are inherently harmful. I'm perfectly content to let people put themselves in difficult situations, so they can play the role of martyr. However, I think it's almost criminal for people to continue living in willful ignorance of the potential consequences which may befall the Duggars' kids.
Very sad and frightening.
The Duggars are very scary. They use physical punishments but hide it from the cameras. Their blanket training consnsit of placng a child, usually 15 to 18 months on a blanket. Luring the child off the blanket and then slapping their hand with a ruler for moving off. This was per Michelle in one of her earlier interviews. When a child leaves a room for discipline or because they are upset, when they come back with JimBob they are visibly upset. Like Josias and the latest pregnancy announcement. Anna will follow right along with what Michelle does since her wanting to belong and please Josh far outweighs her love for her children.
Sadly none will get to move out an dattend college and have choices in life, unless they run away under darkness.
To Christy: Thank you for your comments and enlightening me regarding the punishments of the children. Oh dear, I learn something every day from people's commentary. Thank you for relaying this information. Always feel free to stop by.
To the commenter claiming the children are healthy and happy. Look past the surface. They belong to a Christian CULT. Showing negative emotions are considered an act of rebellion and direct disobedience to your parents. Is that true happiness? No. Having a robotic smile plastered on your face 24/7 because no other emotion is allowed to be shown is in no way healthy. It is brainwashing and a form of abuse. The infants share a room with their adult sisters who are therefore responsible for getting up at night with them. All while Michelle is working out and taking poser naps during the day when the older daughters are again caring for the younger children. I am sure the older female siblings could use a nap with all of the housework, food preparation and childcare responsibilities that have been dumped on them. Shouldn't it be Michelle or Jim Bob getting up in the middle of the night to change diapers, etc? Michelle and Jim Bob do very little of the parenting and having children raise their siblings is not healthy in any way, shape or form. In any family of any size, cooperation is required to keep things going smoothly but in the case of the Duggar's, the older daughters are deprived of having lives of their own so that their Mother can continue her prolific child bearing. That is beyond selfish. The Duggar's function an a unit and only as a unit. They seem to see their children as a whole brood and not as separate people. They generalize boys and girls behavior and career goals, or lack there of, as if there is only one formula for their lives. There is no room for individuality as they must all follow Jim Bob's vision for the family which seems to be focused on misogynistic gender roles and using TLC to push their religious beliefs down everyone's throats. Jubilee got more attention for having been miscarried than Jordyn has ever had in her life. The Duggar's seem far more interested in adding to their already huge family than they do in appreciating the children who already exist. Healthy and happy? Hardly. I have personal experience with ATI and IFBLP as I have family members who are deeply involved with this organization. The fact that TLC allows the sugar coating of their involvement with no mention of the controversy surrounding this group sickens me.
I meant power naps and as a unit. This family and the fact they are held up as some sort of example of great parenting drives me to distraction as evidenced in my typos. Imagine having no identity other than the one your parents have imposed on you. Freedom of choice is not an option for the older daughters or for any of the children for that matter.
To Marina: Amen a milnillion times. I totally concur with you, again, a milnillion times. Marina, you are very lucid and make absolute sense. You are indeed adding to the discussion and always feel free to stop by. The Duggars are both a dysfunctional and abusive family!
I'm glad to see I am not alone in my disillusionment with this family. I have seen too many red flags and have crossed swords with Duggar fans more than once.
I have been especially distressed by the complete disregard for Josie, the youngest who was born premature.
Jim Bob and Michelle go on a mission to El Salvador and leave this child in the care of a sibling barely out of her teens. A child who spent months in intensive care and who is a medically fragile child. Not surprisingly, Josie became ill and seizured, requiring an overnite hospital stay. Michelle and JB could only snivel and whine about their "helplessness" and pray over the phone.
Well, maybe you wouldn't be so helpless if you were home with this child like you should be! What was so important in El Salvador?
You can see the video by googling "Josie Duggar seizure".
I was appalled...then enraged. Didn't take long to dump Josie on an older sibling did it Michelle? Where the devil was the rest of the family? Why was Jill left to manage this situation alone?
When Michelle was again pregnant, JB sat there smiling like the cat who ate the canary. Hey JB, what about the serious risk your wife is taking after nearly dying in her last pregnancy? How about the risk to her unborn child. Put simply, what the hell kind of a husband and father are you? What about the possiblity of your wife and unborn child dying in another bout of pre-eclampsia? What about the disruption..again...of your children's lives by another premature birth? What about the suffering of the child?
I equate him with Rusty Yates, who's mentally ill wife drowned her five children. Had he been a responsible father and husband, those children would be alive. I hold him personally responsible for their deaths.
Has anyone ever seen JB hold his chidren? I've never seen Michelle hold them either. Its always the daughters hauling the kids and diaper bags. Does JB give them baths, rock them, feed them, anything? Are the older boys expected to pitch in with household help and child care, or is that just "women's work"?
The rigid control of every aspect of the children's lives. Do you see the children bring friends home or visit a friend's home? Do the daughters who are young women socialize with other young men and women their own ages? Do they just go out for an evening of fun with friends their own age?
Lots of red flags here, and I've only scratched the surface.
Thank you Marge for your comments. They are greatly appreciated. This is not only the Duggars but the average large family. In large families, parents DO NOT raise their children, it is ALWAYS the oldest child and/or older children who raise their younger siblings thus forfeiting their childhood and adolescence. That is why I stated that the Duggars are a DYSFUNCTIONAL family. This is because in FUNCTIONAL families, parents have just enough children to effectively raise them, giving them individualized attention and granting the children a normal childhood and adolescence.
Hello gmwilliams,
I'm afraid that from personal experience, I can't agree this is typical of all large families. Growing up in a neighborhood where large families were the norm, I saw children who went to school, parochial or public, played with other children, dated, socially interacted with other children their own ages, and did not have parental responsibilities foisted on them. I also saw plenty of very dysfunctional small families, including the one I was raised in.
Certainly children can help out, but foisting parental responsibilities onto children who are barely out of diapers themselves is deplorable. Michelle might call this her "buddy system", I see it for what it is.
What I see with the Duggars is complete regimentation and control of every aspect of their children's lives.
JimBob in my opinion is a tyrannical controller and Michelle is a self absorbed pregnancy junkie. As soon as one baby starts turning into a bothersome toddler, its time for another new baby.
When I pointed out the serious risk another pregnancy meant for Michelle, good grief just ask any OB/GYN or do a little internet research, Michelle fans went ballistic. They trust God! Yeah, that's why Michelle sees a high risk OB, right? This "trust" seems highly selective. Also, didn't God give us a brain and judgment?
I was appalled that a Saturday afternoon with dad is donning Hazmet suits and cleaning out a house abandoned by renters who were hoarders. What parent in their right mind would let their small children into such an environment infested with who knows what? That's why there are professionals who do this work JimBob.
Young women like the very beautiful Duggar girls should be free to pursue education, social interaction with other young men and women, a life of their own. I mean, there are Christian colleges the young women could attend if that is the parents' concern. Instead all the children are relegated to the "Duggar compound" to satisfy the needs of the parents and maintain rigid control.
In my opinion gmwilliams, this is the real problem and would exist whether this family was small or large.
I think they are living a wonderful way. All the love and joy.
I wonder if they have consdered having the older daughters being serigote women for mom and dad egg and sperm.
that would allow mom and dad have more time for themselves.
I believe it is the tax payer and state government should help this famicially. Get so much money to make sure the family is well fed. Also complete medical coverage paid for from taxpayers.
I hope they are able to double the number of kids with each garentied fully paid college waiting for them.
I still think it is nobodys business how many kids they have, they are happy and healthy, that is clearly seen...they are not dependent off of the government.
To jenny: You are joking I hope! If not, this is a case of total inverse logic.
cmerritt,
You don't put your business on TV and the internet, then cry that people shouldn't comment on it. The Duggars profit very well by making their business public. They got all that free professional help in building and decorating their home. I noticed the children were allowed to run around the construction site. The girls with their long hair around table saws etc. I wouldn't allow my small children in their father's workshop, but that's just me. Why would they need government assistance?
Oh, and let's not forget the trip to the Holy Land, which I'm sure they had a little assistance with as well. Of course the girls were hauling around the younger children, wouldn't see JimBob or Michelle doing anything like that! Josie again became seriously ill on this trip. I don't know if Michelle checked ahead of time if adequate medical care would be available for Josie should the need arise. This is after all a child with an extensive medical history. Thankfully it was available.
Who said they are getting gov assistance?
Why are YOU so concerned with this family?
Don't watch the show, and move on.
They are on National TV, if there was a HINT of child abuse, don't you think the experts would have called in the forces?
I have only watched the show a few times, but to me, they appear VERY happy and extremely functionable. They live in a ver nice home, they are all very clean, and I find it interesting how they work together as a "family" to get things done.
There are FAR worse issues going on beside the Duggar family.
Just quit watching it...
For the life of me, I do not understand those people who "hate" them....I can care less if they are capitalizing by this...it is THEIR choice to make. THEY have to live with any of the outcome from it.
Thank you Marge, you are one of the intelligent commentors on this hub. Come again please!
cmerritt,
I didn't say they were getting gov't assistance. Why would they need it?
This family has put their business out there for the world to see and I am commenting. Why are YOU so concerned with them?
I quit watching the show some time ago.
Don't be so naive concerning abuse. Life has taught me a few things, mainy all that glitters is not gold. Also, unless we look in people's living room windows, we have no idea what goes on in their lives. You will know only what people want you to, period. Let's put it this way cmerritt, have you ever been shocked to find out the "perfect" marriage was ending in divorce?
I don't "hate" them in the least. Also, I do not accuse anyone of abuse. I am deeply disturbed by many red flags that I see and have concerns for the children. I have specified them in previous posts.
I suspect CMerritt that I'm bringing up some things that are hitting a nerve with you. Take off the rose colored glasses. There is much about this whole situation that just does not sit well with me, and I'm not buying any of it.
Marge,
Life has taught me a few lessons too, and that is to mind your ouwn business....you are right, Marge, it DOES strike a nerve with me. Not so much you, but others on here who find nothing better to do that BASH them. I understand that THEY took the risk on going on national TV...so they are kind of asking for it. Unless there is some sort of concrete evidence of "child abuse" which there is NOT. Just because they are different and are devout Christians, bothers the crap out some folks...it does not mean they are "DYSFUNCTIONAL"...they appear to be very "FUNCTIONAL". You don't have to "buy" anything...it is not your place to do so. Except don't watch them.
cmerritt,
Apparently one is minding their own business, when they like you, praise the Duggars. Let myself and others criticize them, and we need to mind our own business.
To begin with, no one would know the first thing about the Duggar's business if they didn't tell the world. But then they profit nicely in the process. So CMerritt, maybe another lesson you need to learn is that when one makes their business public, they have to expect the criticism as well as the praise.
That aside, I have never accused anyone of child abuse, I said I see red flags that I find very unsettling. Also, abuse takes many forms and are not always obvious so one cannot say that since there are no signs of abuse then there is no abuse. This statement doesn't suggest abuse is occuring.
I don't for a minute believe this family is what they are portrayed to be and have stated just some of my reasons in previous posts. Other posters have done the same. This isn't "bashing". Its pointing out certain facts that apparently make you very uncomfortable.
As for their devout Christianity, I have my reservations. Let's just say they may devoutly believe, but in my opinion, engage in activity that does not strike me as devout Christian parenting.
They "appear" to be functional. That's the key word, "appear". I see too many things that are telling me different, and apparently other posters are as well.
Marge,
First of all you are correct about them exposing themselves to a national audience, so criticism is to be expected.
With that said, I find myself WANTING to defend them....
It is when you say things like "This isn't "bashing"
but the following things about them in this hub:
“Anyone Who Has 19 Children Is Severely Mentally Ill”
“The Duggars are a selfish, narcissistic couple in need in of a good psychiatrist.”
“Those children are not healthy”
“these people are monsters, not parents!”
I see that as BASHING. Now I have no dog in the fight, I have only watched a few episodes. My daughter loves to watch the show. A friend of mine has used thier homemade laudry detergent and swears by it....
I realize you have your opinion and it is not my hub. I also am a follower gmwilliams, and I DO have respect for him...so, there you have it.
CMerritt,
Opinions are being expressed here. You may not like or agree with them. Fine. I don't necessarily consider all of these opinions "bashing". As with any subject, some people may get more intense than others. I'm sure we have all raised someone's ire for expressing an opposing opinion. I've gotten more than a few Duggar fans angry, and extremely emotional, with me.
If you are a supporter of the family and enjoy their show, I have no issue with this. Go for it.
i cannot watch them. . . even the commercials creep me out . . i refer to jimbob as jimjones . . . or more than one occasion, watching the show made me have Jonestown nightmares . . . the truth always reveals itself, abd theirs is not going to be pretty . . .
The question has been posed, "How are they hurting others?" This is how (aside from leaving lifelong scars on their children):
They are influencing others to have large families.
-The others are not going to have TLC there to build and furnish a house.
-They are not going to be able to declare their home a church.
-They may not be able to homeschool depending upon the educational requirements of the home teacher in their state.
-They are not going to have TV shows generating income (despite not wanting their kids to watch TV).
-They are not going to have income-generating websites where they hawk their wares (despite not wanting their kids to use the internet).
-They are not going to write books and make DVDs that will generate income from around the world.
If the Duggar father were to fall ill, the income sources will keep the family afloat. Those of you who are suckered in to buying the Duggar books and DVDs will continue to financially support the family. If the breadwinner for the average large family falls ill, the family won't have that financial backup.
How the Duggars hurt the rest of us: If you have a large family and the breadwinner falls ill, and if you are not sufficiently educated to be able to get a great-paying job to support the family, who pays? We do. Although I have no problem helping a "regular" family who falls on hard times, I do have a whole LOT of trouble watching my tax dollars go to support a family whose parents refused to take responsibility for their reproduction. So many large families are the result of women not having an education and not wanting to go out to work. When you have eight kids, you can talk about how much work that is (hey, you signed up for that, so quit whining) and justify not making a financial contribution. You know, if you want to have a litter, you should make sure in advance that you can pay for them until they all leave the nest. Having a large litter without planning for medical insurance, college funds, backup funding in case of the breadwinner's illness/layoff/death, etc., is IRRESPONSIBLE. You are putting a huge burden on society when you can no longer provide and look to bankruptcy (read: stealing from others who trusted you to pay your bills) and social assistance programs to provide. God should provide, so you should not be able to claim bankruptcy or get food stamps, free medical care, etc. If you believe that God controls your uterus and God will provide, you should not ask the government (the populace) to provide during hard times. Get down on your knees and pray that God will shower you with money. When you ask for help from PEOPLE, you are being a religious hypocrite. That is not GOD PROVIDING for you.
And then there is the environmental aspect. Anyone who thinks that there is no impact on the environment from overpopulation won't understand/accept what others have to say on the topic, so why bother? Those who are more aware and educated DO understand and will fight this Duggar movement until common sense prevails by lobbying for fewer tax favours and less access to bankruptcy and social/medical assistance for more than the first two or three children in the family. Most of us do not want to get up and go to work every day to support someone else's large litter through our tax dollars and through higher prices brought about when bankruptcy increases the overall debt load, and most of us resent having to pay through taxes for the medical care of a family of eight, ten, or more.
The Duggars hurt everyone because the Duggar fairytale book leads young couples to think that they can follow in the Duggar footsteps without any negative consequences.
Please think about the future before you decide to let God open and close your uterus or before you support any politician who would take away your right to contraception. You do not want to have to do what herders do to camels in order to prevent conception when it would be inconvenient: Insert a pebble into the uterus. You want safe, affordable, available contraception so that you can have a family that you can manage and attend to rather than just lie on your back like a pedigreed dog pumping out more pups. There is more to life, and your kids deserve a better example.
The Duggars are very ill people. Why would anyone listen to them?
To Reader: I could not have agreed with you more. Amen a multillion times.
I think the people who are mentally ill are those who make a living by writing destructive articles about other families. Enjoy elevating yourself while tearing down others. That goes for many of the posters on this thread too. If you can say one thing about Michelle Duggar (and since I don't know her personally, I'll admit to speculating) I don't think she'll stoop to your level and comment on any negative articles.
Amen Kim....
how is the article "destructive"? if the duggars can be destroyed by something as simple as an article, they seriously need to rethink their way of life. . . .
I think the Duggars can care less about what anyone thinks of them. They do what they do, because that is what they believe in. I do not watch the show, but find myself WANTING to defend them. I think the vicious name-calling of them and the accusations of them are ridicules.
But, that is just me, and my opinion.
I like gmwilliams and his hubs, or I would not be a follower of his.
"I think the people who are mentally ill are those who make a living by writing destructive articles about other families. Enjoy elevating yourself while tearing down others. That goes for many of the posters on this thread too. If you can say one thing about Michelle Duggar (and since I don't know her personally, I'll admit to speculating) I don't think she'll stoop to your level and comment on any negative article."
a) She's not smart enough.
b) She wants to preserve that pure image that suckers so many of you.
c) She could not possibly intelligently refute my points.
How easy to say that those of us who oppose the Duggar lifestyle are vicious rather than just fed up with having to help support these families through taxes (and if the Duggars are not paying taxes on their home because it's a 'church', that means that others who live with them pay more in taxes to make up the difference.) How easy it is to make comments without making reasoned arguments to support your point of view. There is nothing vicious about presenting one's point of view if one can back it up.
If you want to respond to the points I made, go right ahead. If you can think of any reason (other than the religious ones) why having 10 kids is better than having 2, bring it on. And if you DO have a large family or plan on one, I would love to know how YOU (not social services) plan to look after them if the breadwinner fails to provide. And I would also like to know how you plan to look after them if Daddy walks out (and boy this sure has happened with large families). I would also like to know how you deal with the guilt of knowing that one person works himself to death to provide for the family and probably carries a significant stress load worrying about what could happen. And if you can present a reasoned argument for a young girl having to become a parent to her siblings because her mother won't parent them, bring that on as well. Children were not considered to be children prior to the Industrial Revolution. They were put to work as soon as they were old enough to shove up a chimney. The Industrial Revolution changed that FOR MOST OF US IN THE FREE WORLD, and children actually began to have a childhood. They deserve that. In large families in which the older sibs take responsibility for the younger, they don't have that luxury. They are too busy working as parents. That is not cute. That does not develop good character. That causes resentment, and it deprives the older children of having a proper childhood. It also makes the greater world perceive these children as freaks. Now if you can prevent a reasonable argument that this is not true, go for it.
Don't just write that you "want to defend them". Defend their way of life point by point and tell us how having a huge family helps the children and society.
"I think the Duggars can care less about what anyone thinks of them. They do what they do, because that is what they believe in,"
So you support anarchy? You do not believe that societies have mores/rules/standards that enable us to live together in groups? We should all just do whatever suits us and to heck with everyone else? Good luck with that.
I invite retorts.
"So you support anarchy? You do not believe that societies have mores/rules/standards that enable us to live together in groups? We should all just do whatever suits us and to heck with everyone else? Good luck with that."
I will tell you this much, in MY family it is a dictatorship!
I call the shots and make up the rules. If MY kid breaks one of MY rules, I am also the judge, jury and executioner! It IS MY WAY! PERIOD.
As American citizens, they are taught to respect our laws. They know we have a Constitution that protects them from a tyrant government...not a tyrant father.
As a Christian, they are taught to LOVE their neighbors, and to seek the fruit of the spirit (look it up)
I do not think it takes a villiage to raise a child.....it takes responsible adults who LOVE their children to raise them.
hows that for a retort?
I cannot believe that leading as a dictator teaches children to make responsible decisions. I do believe in strong parenting, but that is not achieved in Duggar-like families in which parenting is turned over to teenagers. I am not sure how your comment about being judge, jury, and executioner accords with your later comment about the Constitution protecting children from parental tyranny.
As for looking up the Christian reference, I do not need to do that. I used to fancy myself a Christian and I went to church until I decided that I could no longer participate in the hypocrisy. Too many so-called Christians think of religion as a garment that can be discarded when it does not suit them to wear it.
Since I do believe in backing up what I say, here are examples of Christian hypocrisy:
If you are a Christian, you love your neighbor. That includes Muslims, African Americans, Sikhs, same-sex couples in your community, and all other neighbors who are not harming others. How many so-called Christians practice that sort of all-encompassing love?
If you are a Christian, you cannot divorce, because no man can put asunder what God has joined. The divorce rate in this country seems to suggest that thousands of so-called Christians have become hypocrites on the divorce basis alone.
If you are a Christian, you must turn the other cheek when someone harms you. That just does not happen. Would most people turn the other cheek if someone were to rob them or lie about them to gain an advantage?
If you are a Christian, you follow Christ's teaching to pray in private. Today's so-called Christians want children praying publicly in schools. That goes 100% against what Christ taught.
If you are a Christian, you TRY to follow the teachings of Christ. You do not pick and choose those teachings that are convenient for you. When you do pick and choose, you are guilty of hypocrisy. When you pick and choose, you are not simply being a Christian who is still trying to live up to the ideal; rather, you are being a hypocrite who has become a self-righteous Bible-thumper who has no real understanding of Christianity. One does not USE the teachings of Christ to elevate oneself above non-Christians. One follows the teachings in the belief that doing so will make one a better person. That notion is a joke today.
I think it takes both a community and loving parents to raise good citizens with strong ethics and decent values, but that is not germane to this thread's basic discussion. We were discussing the impact of large families on the children and on society. I still have not seen any reasoned refutation of the points that I made.
CMerrit
"...it takes responsible adults who LOVE their children to raise them"
I couldn't agree more. Ever notice how Michelle dumps her younger children on her older ones to care for? The "buddy system" is nothing more than the shirking of parental responsibilities.
Do you ever see JimBob carrying his children, changing a diaper, rocking a child, or giving a child a bath? Come to think of it I haven't seen Michelle do it either. Its always the older daughters. Apparently child care is "women's work".
Michelle makes me think of the Queen Bee who produces the young that care for the hive and the young she perpetually produces.
CMerrit, you should google "Josie Duggar seizure" to see something that is outrageous and appalling. When I saw this video it convinced me this woman is nothing but a self absorbed pregnancy junkie. I began having some serious reservations when Michelle and Jim Bob stood over the NICU crib of their critically ill newborn daughter and Michelle could only focus on the possiblity she was pregnant again. Lady, are you out of your fricking mind? JB, can't you keep it in your pants? Your wife almost died! You have a critically ill newborn. What IS with you people? Shouldn't your main focus be on your critically ill child and your other children?
Oh and Michelle is willing to risk another premature child. How big of her. Any thought to the suffering that child could be subjected to Michelle? How about your other children? How about your own risk?
JimBob, don't you have an obligation to your wife and children to protect them and their mother? Your wife is at serious risk with another pregnancy and you can only smile like an idiot when announcing her 20th pregnancy.
CMerrit, take off the rose colored glasses where these people are concerned.
I was reading the TWOP 19 Children and Counting snark and one contributor said that Jennifer Duggar is a neglected kid. I agree with that. Jennifer's feet were dirty and her hair looked greasy. This person said that Jennifer's pale skin and slightly chubby face reminded her of Carrie Dollanganger from "Flowers in the Attic.". Carrie and her twin brother Cory suffered the most from physical neglect and it was more extreme for them than for their older brother Chris and older sister Cathy. This neglect made Carrie quite small for her age and contributed to Cory's death. I do see some FITA references in the Duggar's show with the religious zealotry and the neglect of the needs of the children.
To Marge and Bridget: I totally concur with you a multillion percent. Children in large families tend to be neglected more by their parents than children from small families. In large families, as I have reiterated a millinillion times, parents DO NOT raise their children. It is always THE OLDEST CHILD who raises the children. The Duggars are just microcosms of parents of large families. Michelle is not the only megamom who delegates this duty, the overwhelming majority of parents of large families FORCE their oldest children to raise their younger siblings.
In large families, parental interaction is woefully absent. In large families as opposed to small families, there is more sibling interaction. Studies show that it why children from large families have more elementary vocabularies and other mannerisms than children from small families who have more adult interaction with their parents. You are so on target regarding the Duggars. Children in large families ALWAYS and WITH CERTAINTY raise themselves. I have seen with it associates and relatives who come from large families. There is little parental involvement and interaction in large families and the children are LEFT TO THEIR OWN DEVICES, positive and/or negative.
With you, I feel that large families are extremely dysfunctional. They do harm to the parents and especially the children! Always feel free to add to the discussion! Adieu Marge and Bridget.
I'm afraid I cannot whole agree with the over all opinions posted here.
First of all, its very important to understand the cultural bias required to assess a mental illness. A mental disorder or mental illness is a psychological pattern, potentially reflected in behavior, that is generally associated with distress or disability, and which is not considered part of normal development of a person's culture. In other words, what might be considered a mental illness in one culture is not at all in another. America has a goal of being culturally diverse.
Living America has meant that much of what we consider culturally normal is up to the freedom of the individual. For this reason we are a more diverse culture and proudly so. This means a good degree of tollerence for others who are not like us.
In most societies there is a lot of intollerence and pressure to conform to over arching norms. Therefore there is lot of prejudice and condemnation to keep people in line with what is felt to be "normal and healthy." I hear a bit of that in the article and these comments. When we look at a large family and because we ourselves feel there is something wrong with a large family, even if none of the kids do, we are applying our prejudice or our percedptions onto another how seem perfectly happy with the circumstance. This is done to homosexuals, the poor, and historically has been done by race and gender. In the past, a divorced parent or single parent was automatically seen as harmful to a child.
The Amish live in a similar way to the Duggers, expect they are taught to work very early in hand labor and do not live with moder technology. Is this abuse? 200 years ago, it wasn't. Is it not our freedom to look back in time if we wish and decide the simplicity of the time provided great value and family connections that have been lost and chose that without being condemed by others who value living in a different way as a personal preference?
Back to the Amish, they raise large families and at 18 give their children the freedom to chose whethery they wan to stay or go into the world. 90% chose to stay.
We may not understand the lifestyle because it is different than us, but the older children really need to be asked instead of us assuming and jumping to conslusions. Wait until they are older. The word "brainwashed" was used in regard to the children. However, in the above article a similar propsition was declared about the writer and "us." The writer said, "We have been educated to know that when a person becomes a parent, it is their responsibility to raise their children, not other children." I would say that if we ALL have been educated to believe something and we ALL believe it, then we are ALL taught or brainwashed into belief systems. Yes, we all are taught different ways of life and follow them. Yet when someone is taught something different than we believe, it shows a shallowness of understanding to suppose THEY are wrong and WE are right. Tollernce is the key to learning to lvie in diversity. We really must BE the change we want to SEE in the world..as Neslon Mandella said.
Our perceptions as beings is second hand in nature and much of what we perceive relies on the Scientific Method for assessing simply because we as being perceive through sense and intercepting thoughts which mean much of what we perceive is tainted by our own prejudices.
Since I don't see the Department of Social Services going in and taking the kids, I must assume these distant appraisels of the Duggers are just biased. If they were not and the children were being harmed, they would not be in the care of the parents.
Please understand, our ways are not always right for others and that is why we live in the land of the free and the home of the brave. To entollerantly project our way of living or what we have All been taught on others living in the freedom of choice is short sighted.
Hi gmwilliams
I don't believe large or small families can be painted with a broad brush. My issue is with a mother who in my opinion is a self absorbed pregnancy junkie who dumps her children on their older siblings to care for and a father I see as a controller.
Its not that parents are better simply because a family is smaller or worse because it is larger.
Dr. Kennedy,
While you raise some valid points I cannot agree that because the DSS has not gone in then everything is fine.
We have heard of more than one tragic tale of children enduring abuse and/or killed because the DSS didn't do its job.
Also, Amish children attend school and socialize with children outside their families. They are also given the choice to leave. I have never felt that large families in and of themselves are pathological.
We can look into the past at what was acceptable and be appalled. Children forced to work in factories, sold into slavery, raised in and working in houses of prostitution. Children knew no different and accepted their place. Did that make it right? We see plenty today that is unacceptable and appalling.
I have stated in previous posts what I find disconcerting about this whole situation and will not repeat myself. I will say that I am convinced Michelle is more focused on pregnancy than anything, to her and her children's detriment. Put simply, a pregnancy junkie. I also believe the older daughters are forced to sacrifice any semblence of a life to provide child care and household services. Every aspect of these children's lives is rigidly controlled. Do any attend advanced education outside the home? Do they socialize with neighborhood children? Do the daughters have friends they go out with for an evening or confide in? The whole focus of their lives are each other.
The older daughters, who are young women, cannot even talk to young men while on vacation without their father acting like Zeus hurtling thunder bolts. Hey Jim Bob, they're not school children, they're grown women for heaven's sake! They have shown an appalling disregard for Josie and her health and safety.
JB even had some of his small children don protective gear and clean out property abandoned by hoarders. One can only imagine the risks the children were exposed to.
Do you ever see JB and Michelle hold and cuddle their children? Change diapers, give baths, rock a child? Sorry Dr. Kennedy, but I see red flags here.
The Amish children are part of a community, not part of a movement. The Amish are not a population threat. They are not holding themselves up as a model or pushing themselves forward as the Duggars are. A young mother who is not Amish is not likely to see the Amish on TV and think, "Wow. I should do that." The same cannot be said of the young mothers who watch the Duggars and are suckered into thinking that having a horde of kids is paying tribute to God.
As for freedom of choice, how about the freedom of future generations to eat, breathe clean air, and not live stacked on top of each other? Freedom to do just whatever you please without regard for your impact on others is very selfish and shortsighted. It can also be illegal at times.
I have noticed a trend with large "superstar" Christian families. The sons do tend to break out and marry and move on, but the girls sit on the shelf many times. Your term "baby hunger" is fascinating. I have noticed this with someone I know who keeps fostering to adopt. She loves them when they are babies, but it does get so complicated when they can talk, walk, and have their own will. The house is a train wreck, but the social services keeps giving them more babies. Now I know it's part of a syndrome. I do value life, however, and am sure the Duggar children are happy to have been given the great gift of Life.
.......O.M.G!
Here is a family, making it on their own, not bothering nobody, no FOOD STAMPS, no handouts.... Ok they have lots of children, SO FREAKING WHAT!?
This is U.S.A we are not communist yet! if they can feed them, so let them be!
The thing you folks SHOULD BE FUSSING ABOUT is, the gal in the supermarket who has 6 kids, all different fathers, buying her 2 carts full of groceries using YOUR TAX DOLLARS - FOOOOD STAMPS! .. go GRIPE about that!
The Duggars have it made! those kids don't have to 'settle' they will never have to feel 'alone/lonely' they will never be 'friendless' they will never feel 'out of place' they will always have companionship'. how lovely! I wish I had more than the couple I had, Im too old now to carry on, but there is NOTHING wrong with keeping your family close.. the more the merry!
Colleen 20 months ago
The family lives in Arkansas.